LRH Aides Conference

"Covert Operations"

2 November 69

This is the transcript of a secret briefing which L. Ron Hubbard gave to a small group of key aides who held senior positions in Bureau 1 (the Information / Intelligence Bureau) of the Guardian Office. The conference was held aboard the Apollo, the former cattle ferry which Hubbard had converted into the flagship of his Mediterranean fleet. At the time, the ship was berthed in Morocco a few months after having been expelled from Greece.

Alright. This is the 2nd November 1969 and a short briefing with regard to our general situation, and it has to do with covert operations, covert operations. And I was rather astonished to read in the book "The Spy and His Masters" a short course in the secret war by a pseudonym, Christopher Felix, written in 1963 and published by Seeburgh and Warburgh where, ah Martin Secker, ah Secker and Warburg Limited, 14 Carlisle Street, Soho Square, [London] W.1.

Now this book is exactly that - a short course in the secret war.

I have about four very valuable books along this line. Two of them describe the end of the war from a worm's eye view in both Germany and Russia in World War I, and the fact that they exist throws into question many of the statements which were subsequently made how they didn't know that the Germans financed the Communist take-over in Russia & it was only discovered during the war. This was written by the Colonel who was in charge of counter-espionage in Russia at the time they did it and it was published before the war.

Another book is a book by Colonel Nikotine, NIK Nikotine. And another book is "Total Espionage" by Kurt Reis, R-E-I-S, which was published in 1941 but written in 1940 which covers the entire German Intelligence Network and its total operation just before World War I, and this is important because the Russian organization is a duplicate of it, and the German organization was built on 17 years of study by Rudolph Hess in Japan and so its a study of the Japanese organization.

The German organization was built on the Japanese organization and the Russian was a copy of the German organization. All of which is very fascinating because it gives you the extent, the fantastic extent of the largest intelligence organization on the planet at one time, and its the only one on the planet which has continuous operation from the beginning of World War I until this very instant. It never closed down.

It never ceased to operate. It says in this book that they destroyed the files, but in Kurt Reis's book they didn't. They were - went on, they got their officers together, they kept the files up, mostly as a labour of love for years and years and years between World War I and World War II. When Hitler came to power he came to power because of the files of the original German espionage group. Furthermore, the German, the German Intelligence Organization at the end of World War II was run by a General Gehlen, G-E-H-L-E-N, and General Gehlen when he saw they were losing simply buried all his papers, files and everything" saying he only had them on Russia of course, because he was on the Eastern Front mostly, and he buried them all, told all of his agents to disperse and hide, that is, his officers, didn't disturb his agency networks in any way whatsoever wherever they were, waited until the American troops showed up, made a deal with them, was taken over lock stock and barrel by CIA and was the beginning of the CIA. The Gehlen Organization has operated without any halt whatsoever from the World War II right on forward to present time. Furthermore Colonel Fefle, F-E-F-L-E, or F-E-L-F-H-E or some such spelling was the operations officer until 1961 of the Gehlen Organization who was a counter spy and who had been there all the time for the Russians and passed everything that the CIA was doing lock stock and barrel over to the Russians - the Russians have known everything that was going on in the CIA since the day of its formation. Very interesting.

This tells you merely the extent of this. Now these are not quoted out of the book - these are the four books which I have - and this is the fourth one. This book in its chapter 'Political Operations' describes exactly what is happening to Scientology and has been happening to Scientology, mentioning no names - but it is just the general action. What we are being subjected to is what is called a "Covert Operation". And the functional range of covert political operations - this is a political operation even though it is leveled at an organization - ah - and so is the functional range of covert political operations so vast as to defy listing. It runs from the simple obvious spontaneous demonstration in Tokyo or Caracas, or New York though the quarrels of an international labour organization - the speeches of an international conference of intellectuals, the resolutions of a congress of lawyers, the organized manouvers of churchmen, the patient persistent pressure of exiles, the staggering variety of publications, to the Viet Cong guerrilla hidden in the jungles of South Vietnam and to a Cuban prisoner captured at the Bay of Pigs. Anyway, he goes on here on page 144 to describe a covert political operation - ah - a covert political operation where the World Council of Churches was making a bid for the Rumanian Orthodox Church and it goes through with a whole action including the kidnapping of the Metropolitan in order to keep the Rumanian Orthodox Church from falling into the hands of the Catholic Church, but getting it into the hands of the Church of England - they managed it finally - the managed it. Now this - this picture here contains actually an absolute duplication of the situation.

The target he goes on to say here is the - ah - political warfare is power - that is whittle down a rival or competitors power and increase or preserve ones own - and he designs this and that is what is happening.

We are if you'll notice the campaign that is extended over 19 years - has simply been attack on any increase of power by the - of Scientology by discrediting - and these discrediting things you will find the whole common denominator - I studied this some years ago and I found out the whole common denominator - everything they were doing was discredit, discredit, discredit. They actually did know other actions of magnitudinous sort - they simply discredited. That doesn't say that at any time they couldn't - and earlier they did. My children have been kidnapped once - a girl was kidnapped - people were murdered in 1950 and they started it up hot - thought they'd won and then had to resume it and they resumed it on a more formal ground-in pattern. It included influencing internal revenue services against us which is normally followed by the Health Services, which is followed by Parliamentary stir up and possible action and it is done through false reports in the Press. Now these fellows go one two three, they follow through. Now we had to find out who was doing this, and we know who is doing this, it's the World Federation of Mental Health, Mary Sue has just had this data for some time and hadn't integrated it and we just discovered it. Guess what: the British and American Intelligence Services have serving on their panels, M.I.6 and CIA, and all the Health Ministries have serving on their panels, and all of the Government decision level agencies have serving on their panels, members of the World Federation of Mental Health who are carried on the roster. For instance there's a half a dozen people who are listed as members of the World Federation of Mental Health - we found the rosters of it and they have the home address of the Home Office, so Mary Sue looked into it further and there are many members of the World Federation of Mental Health had the Home Office in England as their address. All this is very fascinating, because it seems that the World Federation of Mental Health are privy to all intelligence plans, intentions, and activities of CIA and M.I.6, just to name two. Alright, there's how they got their data and there's the people they use. Of course if a guy is in this line of country why he can (__ ? __) you seem, he can parasite an operation on to his existing confidence, don't you see, so he can get CIA to carry one out - he can feed all kinds of false information into the intelligence lines and in addition to that the God-damn stupid governments pay for his meeting with the Russian agents every year in the United States or England; once in Vienna. These bastards who are in charge of security in those Western countries out to simply be electric shocked to death - I'm not kidding. Because these same guys who are part of these panels in the intelligence organizations of the West have meetings with Russians every year. Now for a condition like that to obtain, your high-up must be God-damned rotten. J. Edgar Hoover would have to be engrossed 100 percent in merely keeping his position. Your Security Forces of course, are knocked into a cocked hat because they won't do anything. They can't do anything, do you see? The West is done, boy. You mean they let a whole agency network right in amongst their midst, huh? So these guys could be variously from CIA, do you understand, or M.I.6, or some other Intelligence organization. Do you follow?

Now, our policy is this. We haven't done a thing that is either reprehensible or criminal in nineteen years: so why are we dodging? We've done nothing in 19 years. We probably have less crimes on the track than any organizational group on the planet, mostly because we've been made careful with all this. So our policy is: that we have nothing to hide of any kind whatsoever. We have to keep and maintain a high security. We ourselves have to maintain a high security. We aren't maintaining as high a security now as we did, but this means that there are links between a fellow named Thompson in Canada, the big newspaper proprietor who owns all the newspapers. He's trying to heat up the campaign on England.

He owns English Press, English papers left and right, he owns the "Sunday Times" - Alexander Mitchell with his black magic story in the Sunday Times on October the third, you got it? This same Alexander Mitchell was the guy who was spreading the black magic tales down in Corfu when we were there. It's known that most external British newspaper reporters are M.I.6 Agents. That's who they are - they are not newspaper reporters.

Now what they're trying to do with false reports - by the way, every, every testifying person who has testified to Congressional or Parliamentary Committees or something like that to get us in trouble through the Commonwealth, had been members of the World Federation of Mental Health.

The South Australians, for instance, at their Select Committee which has stampeded on through, a man named Salter who is a member of the hierarchy, the big boys; Dax, the guy in Melbourne, big boy; Rees, their former President, comes from Melbourne, he is the pusher there, you see.

This Salter, before the Select Committee in South Australia, said that we hypnotise and we brainwash. Isn't it very interesting that the basic books on hypnotism in the United States are written by a man named Salter - possibly a relative - but also in the World, in the U.N. the education of psychiatrists is recommended to include mysticism. We never have hypnotised anybody, we are dead against it right down the line, and yet he testifies this to the Select Committee and he says we brainwash people and of course these local yokels with barnyard dung on their boots as they sit around don't know it takes seventy days of supreme physical distress to brainwash anyone. It's a Pavlovian operation which you torture and deprive someone of something or other for a long, long period of time. Could only be done in an institution.

So he tells them this. Therefore, he says, that we might harm mental patients. Yes, but these bastards kill them, they torture them and kill them, so what hypocrisy. But then this guy is a member of the World Federation of Mental Health in tight - do you follow?

Now, here is an old book on Intelligence that was written, an old book on Intelligence written by a Chinese, called 'The Art of War' and one part of it is about intelligence - names five kinds of agents, and one of these kinds of agents he calls the Dead Agent. That gives us our clue and that gives us our defense. He calls them the Dead Agent because he feeds false reports to the enemy, and then the enemy when they find it out, kill him. This is a type of agent. This actually, Dead Agent, is what describes each one of these birds who comes down the line and that we hear of, who writes stories in Scientology - about - Scientology - in the press. Every one of these guys is a Dead Agent.

Why? Because he's d- nothing but falsity. But what has he done in actual fact? He is trying to build up a library so he can then come around with newspaper clippings so he can show that yesterday's lies proves today's lie. Do you see how it is? So then he's got morgues of tremendous numbers of clippings which the organization itself has gotten into the press here and there, and he eventually gets all these lies together and then he says well that's a big lie so that proves the other lies. Furthermore they forward all kinds of weird things to other intelligence organizations which are false reports. They each time bear out as false reports. They bore out as false reports and your Spanish boy there is a call-out. You were talking apparently to an agent when you were talking to the Director-General man up there, because he went right to London didn't he? But I thought Spain and London were at war, sort of, huh? Oh well, no, but ah ha-ha. In other words British Intelligence is operating left right and center in the area of Franco. It's odd that all during World War II British Intelligence operated hand in glove with Franco too. What's all this about Gibraltar? Somebody kidding? Now we notice that there's some kind of a secret organization trying to take over in Spain and this secret ah secret Catholic organization and so on - Spain is no longer under the control of Franco so Intelligence services are very active in there. But this is it. The essence of their attack is False Report and the Chinese called the guy a Dead Agent. So we're only interested in showing the falsity of such reports.

All you've got to do is demonstrate the falsity of such reports and the enemy won't believe them anymore. Somehow or another we've got to work and get out of existence all of these intelligence false reports that have been levelled against us. Do you see? That gives us an opening.

This gives us an opening, and we should simply work to have declared as false all of these reports. Now the press in general, which isn't under their thing is beginning to be, get, begin to get very suspicious of all of these reports on Scientology 'cause they couldn't find anything. The Cabinet Minister who came forward, Kenneth Robinson, and gives a big false report saying there's evidence on us but never can produce it, and there is none, and so forth, not only is removed from that post but now he's been removed from the Cabinet. He gave false reports so the Labour Party shot him. Do you see? This is how, in other words, this hill is climbed - false reports. But make no mistake, this is a covert political operation and the motive of it is power. Think what would happen to Scientology over the world if it didn't have this constant rabble rousing restraint. Power - do you see? In the first place it's the only secure agency that either England or the United States would ever dare employ, and the Atomic Energy Commission once recognized this and they wouldn't let any psychiatrists or psychologists go anywhere near a place in Washington which was the atomic bomb area, but Dianeticists and Scientologists, well they're okay there - so they had gotten the word. Look at the power, the power would come up, so these guys, these guys are operating the restraint power, and they themselves are increasing their own power. Their own power is very great. Margaret Mead, one of their founders, whose name appears on their charter papers, was before a Senate sub-committee the other day and got a world news blast because of the surprising statement that drugs weren't harmful. This is Margaret Mead. Carstairs is a ban- the bomber. He goes all around with these, see? Margaret Mead: drugs are okay; Carstairs, England, marching, ban the bomb, disarm; you got it? This is the type of individual these birds are, see? All this is very fascinating. They operate of course through the National Mental Health Associations and all you have to do is just start blowing in that direstion and press in that direction and various bad things happen.

For instance, South African Government, God-damn fools, were supporting the South African Mental Health Association in South Africa - supporting it with Government funds. It was a private organization. It was like Government all of a sudden start giving us lots of money for no reasons. Well they've cut all that off - he refused to sign a loyalty oath. Oh ho, fascinating! He got into a fit when they asked him to sign a loyalty oath. Refused to absolutely. He cut his troat from ear to ear down there, but he's got so many fellow travellers sitting up high and in Parliament and all this sort of thing that nevertheless the pressure can continue, do you see? Well we can do things too, we're getting these guys investigated left and right. The public at large is on our side, it isn't on their side. They support no public whatsoever. The public if left to its own devices would tear them limb from limb; so I also make it my business to make sure that some- day the public does. I just keep up pressure in that line. Now it's the hallmark of a professional action that it is continuous. This has been going on without much change in pattern for nineteen years, when they though they could do something about it - they were trying to kidnap me and children and this sort of thing but that faded out and they went on to another type of tactic, and they've been on this tactic now for the rest of these 19 years - 17 years they've been on this new tactic. That's a hallmark of a political covert operation, covert political operation, 'cause it just goes on and on; it's the professionals that continue the pressure line, continue the pressure line, continue the pressure line. So it's up to us to continue the pressure line. And what we should do is show them up as bad hats, do our own line of country, except what we say about them is factual and can be proven, and show that they have fed false reports to one and all. We're winning along this line, but it's their pressure, our pressure, do you see this?

Now that is the background music of this except for one thing. The CIA defines Communism as a political party which uses Soviet Russia as a front group. It is really an unfair sort of political party in that it uses a national government to carry forward its political party aims as a one-party action - there's no contest - there's no other party. That's how the CIA defines Russia, and of Communism. Now this is the type of thing and we have actually penetrated, we have penetrated with information now although some of our data - we defeated ourselves with the O.C.P. by saying they were not members of the U.N. when as a matter of fact they could pretend to this little nebulous thing, that they were a, did consultive work, they have a consultive capacity. Actually our report is not untrue because it is probably being cancelled. They stink. But Carstairs is about to become a member of W.H.O. and has moved himself off of World Federation of Mental Health, so these guys are increasing their power. Now they are afraid that we will increase our power. Now I'll give you one more datum.

The Lenin, Lenin's definition of power and force and his attitude and that is this: potential power, or power, or a strong entity of any kind whatsoever whether individual, organisation or national, if it became an enemy - this is Lenin - if it became an enemy, why it would be very dangerous to Communism, so therefore the only safe way to handle any powerful entity is to treat it as a potential enemy. This is the woof and warp of Communism see - to treat it as a potential enemy. And one can't believe that he never thought the thought through that if you treat something as a potential enemy you will eventually get an active enemy. But this is psychotic think in the extreme. It could get as ridiculous as, a ship pulls in alongside of us that has an eight thousand horse power motor and that's more powerful than this ship so therefore it's an enemy so we should treat that ship as a potential enemy. I mean it's this nuts, this nuts see. The United States at the end of World War II was more powerful than Russia so therefore it had to be treated as a potential enemy so they couldn't deal it and then they went and seized all their buffer states and they didn't seize the bomb, and they've been protecting themselves madly and the Russian people haven't gotten any production at all because all of their production to totally devoted to external warfare, and preparedness, and so forth; in other words the whole country went nuts. There was no enemies. Alright, now look at that as a basic think of Lenin; look at this as a basic think of the World Federation of Mental Health. 

We have answers to the mind and spirit so therefore we would be a potential enemy if we ever thought of it. So therefore we must be treated as a potential enemy throughout, and then gradually they kept this up - we were not even in their line of country, we have no interest in their line of country at all, and they eventually made us an active enemy. That is the cycle. So this is very interesting - that the World Federation of Mental Health think is a duplicate of Lenin's think. In other words they run by the rules of Lenin. What's happening in the United States and England is cultural destruction. Of course the United States and England don't understand culture. Culture is a technique which is created by the Government or exists amongst the people and it is a mad study on the part of the Communists all the time. For instance they come in to conquer an area and you get the writers and so forth and song writers and dancers and ballet artists and intellectuals and so forth, and they get all these guys together and they say let's put together a culture. And these guys all get very busy with their culture. Oddly enough Communism of course is basically German and the word 'culture' is German and therefore, K-U-L, and it is not actually understood well in the West as the West doesn't know enough to protect its culture. A very heavy study on the part of the Russians have resulted in a campaign against the culture of England and the United States which began in the field of education a half century ago till today the kid in school is told that the constitution isn't anything that's followed any more and Russia, Communism is okay except they don't practice it right in Russia. Ahh. The Public School which was the back- ground of the English Empire, the British Empire and so on, was being, carefully being destroyed for a very long time. They don't teach this sort of thing any more in the Public Schools system. The Russian hits - and the Soviet and the Communist hits at education, so education is his prime target. He now has whole generations of people which have been educated along his line of country. So he's busy destroying Western culture. And the way he is destroying Western culture is to have the experts on the mind pretend to be experts on culture and he's accumulated to himself the anthropologist, the psychologist, the social scientist they call them, and these birds and so on in there defining what culture is left right and centre and of course the more they define it the more riot and civil commotion they have. These guys are nothing more than agents provocateur. Now an agent provocateur if he has his orders and is sent in to a country, he never has to report. If he actually is getting that country's government to support him he doesn't even have to pick up money. The stylized social security actions of the West don't apply. They still think spies are people who go out and get the plans of the battleship, that's true, that's what they think a spy is. But they catch them, if you want to study their case records and so on, which are plenty available, they catch them at the point of contact where they relay the information, and it's the point of relay of information where they actually catch their spies, or at the point where the guy is trying to get some citizen of the country to get the plans of the battleship for him and then the citizen turns him in, or where he is trying to communicate back to Russia to turn in his information, and this is how security forces are operating, so of course the guy who is simply trained, agreed upon, he's briefed in some congress some place or another - he goes back in and then he gives the uniform party line and these guys are absolutely fantastic. Right now they have a party line of they're not going to say anything about Scientology. But isn't it funny. All the psychologists and psychiatrists in the State of Texas have this as a total agreement and it is found in New York, it is found in Los Angeles and it's found abroad, all simultaneously! This is a party line. So there is a communication line, but it's normally the communication lines, they hold these World Federation of Mental Health Congresses. They get together ploom ploom - the Russians are there, the heads of all of these psychiatric groups are there, and they all get together. Now most of the social organizations of the super social organizations are connected here one way or the other so the information is passed in this particular fashion, so they absolutely, they're walking into and degrading the West left right and centre. Who would be in a better position than a psychiatrist to suborn members of the State Department who are perverts? Yet the State Departments of most countries are known for their membership of per- version. All this gets very interesting. 

When you start looking this over as an intelligence pattern it fits in no other category. So the guy sails in and he tells a bunch of people around one way or the other that we're bad hats and that we do this and we do that and then he proves it - and this is important to you - he proves this conclusively by showing that he has an intelligence report or a news clipping. Yeh but they're false reports. He himself put the intelligence report in to that intelligence agency, this news guy, his people put the intelligence report through. So you get a God-damn fool like Captain Lemon of the Office of Naval Intelligence, who is of course - all Naval Attach├ęs are Intelligence Officers, ah, in Greece, in Athens, he puts all this cock-eyed information - it's been turned in to him you see - so he puts it for the information to his fleet, and his fleet comes up and operates in this peculiar fashion with regard to us. The whole thing is just a basic false report. When it turns out to be false the Greek Government is very embarrassed indeed. The Deputy Prime Minister of Greece, now probably wouldn't believe an intelligence report coming from that quarter if they held a pistol on him, and yet their services were before that time functioning well. So these guys use up their credit. Do you see how they do it? They use up their credit. Now they come around into a port and what they've done to us now time and time again is they come in to a port and they spread a bunch of rumours, these are totally unfounded, they even bring out a bunch of false clippings and that sort of thing, do you see, and then they can have fed an intelligence report in from some other area and then they can show people, you see, how bad we are. The only trouble is WE are actually in that area and just by being decent and not trying to mask everything and trying to do this and that but going ahead with our very decent intentions and just laughing at these things because they're a bunch of bunk don't you see. Anybody is perfectly at liberty to come aboard this ship or to go through any corporation which this company manages or to investigate any damn thing we're doing and they will find these reports are totally untrue, so it's a campaign by false reports. Anybody can read this if he ever cares to. What I'm trying to tell you is that the enemy works from the World Federation of Mental Health on the advisory panels of Intelligence Agencies and thus they can be parasitic to any Intelligence Agency and they can push their little favours and reports down the line, do you see, because they've got pals. Furthermore there is some connection between Intelligence and the newspapers that are being brought up left and right in England and therefore if they're connected with the World Federation of Mental Health, Thompson is connected with the Russians. Also Truth - the guy who owns all the "Truth" newspapers that were fighting us so hard down in Australia and so forth, he must have some connection. We are now tracing these connections.

But it's very interesting that this is a technical thing, this is a technical thing which is well known now in the world of business - these guys have been playing it too long and too often; CIA and M.I.6 and the rest of these guys have been playing the same game too long - now they call it a covert operation, and that is its technical term, and its total target is to reduce the power of a competitor or enemy and increase their own. Now they're reducing our power and reducing their own, so the formula, they're not even working their formula right as their power is decreasing. Today, there hadn't even been a whisper about them and yet there's a committee, a Parliament, not just appointed Royal Commission, but a bunch of MP's are actually investigating their killing of people in England. They were so God-damned dumb they were killing people and burying them in the institution grounds, if they were too badly tortured and they didn't dare get 'em to a - you know, beaten and so forth; but what they do is fox this off, they try to blame the attendant. Actually what happens is psychiatrist come in and says that guy's given us a bad time, rough him up. So the attendants jump on to him, beat him to a pulp and so forth and they very often kill him, but it's by the psychiatrist's orders. It isn't, it isn't actually just their treatment. There's an investigation going on now in South Africa - you think we're getting inquiries - they're in a much worse position because they've got everything to hide. Down in South Africa they had a moratorium - I mean a mortuary - across the road from the mental institution that was way out in the country. Very fascinating, because the, the rate, the death rate and the admission rate were comparable figures in that institution.

We have found a Hungarian 20 grabbed for political reasons, nothing would be proved on him and he was thrown in to an institution in New York. We sprung him, not very long ago. We're picking up information, information, information, but these guys, in New Zealand for instance they lost out. They caused a hell of a back-fire in New Zealand. Now they keep up a steady pressure line, they are tremendously well financed, but the truth of the matter is they are operating dishonestly, with false reports, and there are plenty of guys who know they are false reports now, and these guys haven't any use for them at all, the public has no use for them at all. If we keep up our pressure line and we do it all right and we do it well, what will happen at the other end of the line is they will blow up. Furthermore there is a natural phenomenon that you try to cut a theta line it will blow you up every time. I'll give you an example. You find out that Aunt Mary, that Joe's Aunt Mary, the guy finds out that Joe's Aunt Mary has inherited a million dollars and is on easy street and is trying to find her nephew. "A" has just found this out and she has asked him to tell her nephew. And he says to hell with that guy, you know, ha ha ha ha. He doesn't do it. Eventually the nephew runs into Aunt Mary, and says "But I told "A" to find you and tell you this." What happens to "A"? It's what's happening to the psychiatrist, see, you cut a theta line, we can help you out and we can solve a lot of these problems, we have answers to the mind and health - "Oh those guys are no good. Actually they're wanted for smuggling, and that aaw wow blurp blobb bluubb bluubluuub." Do you follow? So what's going to happen to him? Now let's look at our exact existing situation here. So our policy is simply expose their false reports, that's all. Just the false reports - and they expose as false reports, and then ourselves do not issue any false reports, be totally truthful about it, you haven't anything to dodge, you got nothing to dodge at all. What are we exactly? We get so God-damn confused when we're hit so hard and accused of everything under the sun, moon and stars so we tend to forget what we are. We in this organization actually are a management organization. We charter ships, we train people. We have many diverse interests actually. We have full technology of administration. Today if anybody were to know administration he would have to know the most advanced mental technology there was just to know administration what human reaction would be. It would be absolutely necessary. Well you've got a choice, you've got a choice between Pavlovian Russian Psychiatry or you have a choice between that or aah Dianetics and Scientology. There is no other choice because there aren't any other subjects. Anybody in his right mind isn't going to take management technology from Russia which is busy going broke. That's silly. So it leaves you just one choice, so you say anybody who really knew his business in the field of management would have to know the most modern Western mental technology. Well regardless of all of that we are a management corporation. We have numbers of schools, we have ships, we have various things, that is a fact, and we keep those things running and we keep those things running and they are big business. This organization actually has very large reserves, which we're trying to build up and so on and it is whether you think we're hit or not or might be blown out of the water or not or being argued against or not by Russian agents the whole point of the matter is that we are very powerful. We're not just potentially powerful, we are powerful.

Now, some other factor entered the situation when we started functioning around in the Mediterranean area, or in Europe. Apparently they became somewhat panic stricken at the tremendous amount of money and knowhow that was flooding into England because we were there. Alright, they took action to make sure that didn't happen. Okay. We were helping out Spain and all of a sudden - not we, the old company, it was the H.E.C. And the H.E.C. at that time was doing surveys of business potential and bases for schools and activities. This is the truth. Alright. They prevented about two million quid a year from going into Spain. But we were okay till we did that. We were yakked at a little bit but nothing really happened, which I think is fascinating, nothing really happened to us - snarled at, yes, but ah no problem, and all of a sudden a lot of money was liable to come into Spain or it was beginning to come into Spain and instantly our throats were cut and then the second we pulled that out why we were okay again. But a pressure was kept up so we wouldn't do further business in Spain. We went to Greece, the ship went to Greece, and they started to put in a mission which was going to bring in a lot of money and a lot of tourists and a lot of travel tours and so forth, all kinds of things would have happened and we were doing a business survey at that time in Greece and the people in that particular areas were beginning to take hope because there was ways and means of settling it industrially, remember? When we got that going this covert operation stopped up, bang, cut our throats. Now all of a sudden we are starting to operate in Morocco and what do we find? One of these guys shows up. But the first guy that showed up in Greece was not really a reporter, he was a sort of a freelance. He just cased the situation to see how it was happening so they could then send in some heavy artillery see. Bang, this becomes very fascinating because a lot of administrative know-how is needed by Africa, we're actually organizing donation contributions, an American foundation and it's going to work in conjunction with Morocco. We're going to show them real down to earth administration, form a pattern of it, fix it up so more money comes in and wham, one of these guys shows up. Right away he's also shown up along lines where he's got false reports, false newspaper articles, big - maybe the newspaper article is actually a photostat, but the story in the first place was false. So what has happened here, there is a common denominator to what is going on that hasn't too much to do with us: where we go it's a proven fact money follows - it's not small money, it's big money. Four times now these birds have acted. So what is this? Look, nothing happens to us after we desist. After the old H.E.C. desisted in each one of these instances and ceased to push things into the country, nothing after that happened to them. Now this company, nothing is happening to this company right up to the moment when it all of a sudden starts to form a financial channel into Morocco. So I believe there are three or fours sides to this coin. I believe it has to do with cultural degradation of the country. I don't believe they intend these countries to have their balance of payments come out right. Now it's of peculiar interest to an Arab country that there is a company and a certain set of bankers who also finance the World Federation of Mental Health. And we're running these leads down now. But one of them is Loeb Kuhn, the big Jewish investment firm. What the hell is this all about? You're here in this covert operation, we all of a sudden look up and we see that although the KGB and so forth seems to be associated with the World Federation of Mental Health, their other organization in action seems to go back to Jewish Bankers. We make no sense out of this but it's just as far as we have gone, do you follow? So they have fish to fry of some kind or another. Now you want to be very careful of ever making a confusing statement or a defensive story or something like that because you actually are in a position where you are honest, you're doing your job and so on but you're being hit by covert operations. You're actually operating in an operating climate which is probably similar in any company trying to do business now on the planet. These national governments have a very vested interest in who invests in what, where and who builds up what where and they try to checktrade, technical skills and so on, they try to control these things. United States does, Russia does, England does. So you're sitting with just about all the technology there is in this particular line of country and there's no jokes about that, so we're the subject of a covert operation which has gone on and on and on and on and on and which people don't believe much any more. But our operating policy is we've not a God-damned thing to hide, we have nothing to hide of any kind whatsoever, and we state that we are the subject of a covert operation and that it, we don't know whether it is us or our connections or people who are being hit - we don't know if it's me being hit, we don't know what is the direct target; they don't seem to be too interested in me, but they've certainly - funny one - is there's only a strike at the time a country's going to be helped, and the second there is a further help for that country, why the pressure's off at once. And that has been repeated. They wouldn't be so cooky as to believe they could chase the ship out so it couldn't have any ports any more, that would be absolutely psychotic you see, nobody could do that. We already found out that's impossible. They can queer us in ports and so forth, but look we've straight- ened up all of these ports but Spain. That hasn't been straightened up yet - it's in total political agitation at the present moment. It probably could be straightened up if we got a document or two that added up along that line. But I would tell people anything like this, um look, We are not actually worried about these operatives, except as they operate to in - 'cause they're not going to do anything to us, already found out they wouldn't touch us, they're scared to, but we're only worried about them running around on a beach and telling the people a whole bunch of outrageous lies to prevent us and discourage us from helping our clients and people to establish the operation and so forth which we were supposed to establish, not the operation but the business connections and so on. And then the government acting on false reports so that after there is a considerable investment which we would be out of pocket don't you see, we all of a sudden are told no we can't do business with you any more. We've just heard that you are actually wanted in Syria for white slave activities, ah running Caucasians for call-girl service to the White House you know. So we don't maintain this as Marxist. There is another group on the planet who have a lot of false power. They have a lot of power with no technology. Who they work for we're not interested. We could run this back but all we're worried about, what we're really worried about, we're not worried because we're scared, we're just worried that alright we go to a lot of work for a client, we're going to set up a school, going to fix it all up, and we just consider because it's not a dodge that we have this other corporation and so on, if you notice I was setting up that very individual - that after we've done all of the basic work, study and so on, that we'd suddenly be out of pocket half a million bucks because somebody had run around and said they're wanted in Afghanistan for stealing the shoes of the Marabouts. Because these reports, the way the covert operation goes can be very something or other. But then we are also worried about principals and so forth that we might have to do with, all of a sudden being told that the country is going to go to pieces and it isn' going to last and there isn't any way of investing any money because it's all going to go up in smoke and so on, that's where that angle comes in. We're basically interested in the - you got, aught to be very politically straight forward, what we're really interested in is the accuracy in is the accuracy and efficiency of the security forces of a country. Will they actually act on such an operation? Spain? No. Spain's, Spain's security forces are long gone. The Greeks and so forth, they're knocked to pieces. The English can reach into Greek - I find out now that English and the Greek Intelligence Services are practically one. Here's England furious with Greece, but Greece and English Intelligence Services - well they aren't so "one" now - they almost became one - World War II, at the end of World War II. They're probably bunged up now. Anyhow, do you see what our operating action is. In other words this is very factual, it isn't a nebulous create an opinion. Aah we honestly can without any doubt what- soever, help the living daylights out of a country or an area. We've got the technology and so on and all we've got to do is set up the connections and contacts. The money would flood in to the place. We have an end - - There's no doubt about this don't you see. But so we spend a quarter of a million or a half a million and so forth setting it up, then what happens? H.E.C. spent about a half - ah it was upwards towards half a million dollars in Greece up to the moment when a mission was knocked out. Now it's open again, but notice that we have a letter which permits us to go into Greece and yes we can probably go back there and establish all that and so forth, but, Greek security forces have been infiltrated - quite obvious, or they wouldn't have acted. Now that's a bad challenge to put up against these guys up here, but this is all we're interested in. Can some dumb nut calling himself Jack Lundin - that's terribly interesting because he's a famous writer and of course that's a pseudonym - famous socialist writer. This guy comes in, he all of a sudden got a hold of a Consul and he can do this, do that, yip, yip, go around and say those people are wanted and then, then, having fed some police agency some report and then gotten it pulled back on to the line or actually forged it to begin with, or filed it some place with Interpol or Spanish Intelligence or something like that, the he can say well all you have to do is ask Spanish Intelligence or Interpol, don't you see. Oh yes, there is a report. Sure they have a report - he filed it.

So we have the problem of going ahead in a war which is evidently being waged to keep Africa being bled in some fashion or another of its natural resources without actually helping her out at all. There's some political motive that's going on here. We don't care anything about that if the security forces won't suddenly turn on us.

Now counter intelligence is the operation by which an enemy or a rival intelligence service is infiltrated. That isn't technically speaking against espionage - that isn't what it means - it means the infiltration of an enemy service. And we don't know if it's M.I.6 or an agent of M.I.6 who has turned, meaning doubled. Now counter intelligence is such an art that there isn't an intelligence service in the world that isn't totally infiltrated, so any intelligence service in the world is liable to turn in any kind of a report you ever heard of.

So the question is, the question is simply this, we have absolutely nothing to hide, our policy is that we do what we do, the only thing that we're really concerned about is a cover operation which is run against us rather consistently whenever we try to bring money or something like that into a new country. We all of a sudden are liable to find ourselves with a covert operation, newspaper reporters. All of a sudden in some newspaper we never heard of before some scurrilous story is suddenly appearing like Hubbard is engaged in black magic a quarter of a century ago. Now I'll give you a typical, a typical action here. Jack Lundin after leaving here spent the night at the British Consulate in Casa. He customarily lives in Tangier and sometimes also in Rabat at hotels. His address in Tangier is Hotel Riff, Boulevard de Espagne. He is known to Commissar of Police as NOT a journalist. His room was searched and it was found that he has all the documentation of a journalist, his passport is the same, and he has recently been in Spain and in Gibraltar and there was nothing in Corfu in his passport. He has been in Morocco about three months,it is not known by the Rabatt Commissar where his money comes from and he has no apparent occupation and so and so suggests we ask the British Consul in Rabat for his source of income. He seems to be primarily interested in things maritime. He said to the American Consul that the crew is a trick but he didn't know what kind of a trick; we take drugs and export them from Morocco to France and South America. The Consulate called Panama to check us and our identity was confirmed. Lundin in talking to the Consul was interested in how the crew were paid and by whom. Covert operator, see, 100 percent, here he is. But he's interested in general, his general interest and so on, so his main interest, and I can tell you this, his main interest is to do something to Morocco, do you see? Now we've got, in other words, this is - now the American Consul here was asking us the question "How was our crew paid and by whom?" You know, how did we pay the crew, you know, how did we pay the crew? So somebody's got something going here on how the crew is paid, you see. Well this is an asinine point. We receive fees from companies, and part of the fee we pay the crew, and for doing good work for those companies the crew gets bonuses. What in the name of God? And naturally if we were going to train people for a company you see, if we were going to train people for a company they would give us a fee and we would give the people being trained an allowance. I mean this isn't even, even isn't difficult, see, anybody could figure this out, but, you can start some stupid one going, so the American Consul here (for or from) some time immemorial has had this planted see, so he's got stuff on his intelligence lines that comes from the same intelligence lines of this Lundin, right?

So all this has to do, you have to keep in view and keep in mind just this one point: we don't have a damn thing to hide, we know our business, we are subjected to covert operations. The covert operations very often come a long the lines of other intelligence services, all of which is very fascinating, such as this guy Lundin immediately goes to the British Consulate. So he's probably got them kidding that he's M.I.6, while he's really CIA, but maybe KGB. Do you see?

Now this is not our primary interest. Our primary interest is simply, is this sort thing which is calculated to put us out of operation and deny the country some money, is this sort of thing going to be the order of the day and we all of a sudden find our throats cut from ear to ear because this sort of thing is going on. We don't know the target, but he seems to be interested in maritime things. Well that's trade, and that is an intelligence action, right? Now I can tell you our basic operational policy again just to repeat it, our basic operational policy is we haven't anything to hide, all we're going to do is blow up all these false reports. Well what reports have you had? 'Course they never tell you what reports they've had, you couldn't get what reports were had so sometimes it's difficult to find out what the report is so you can blow it up. For instance who the hell would think that anybody was accusing you of exporting or trafficking drugs from Morocco to France and South America. Well it's an outright lie, we haven't even got an office in South America, we have no ships in South America and we've never been to South America; and this company hasn't been to France. This ship was at France, in France sometime over a year ago, a year and a half ago or something, either a year or so ago, which you see is nuts just on the face of it. So the only thing we're interested in, the only thing we're actually interested in is just security of operation, that is, if we pour a bunch of money in, we go ahead and work to help the co- try quite honestly and so forth, a lot of money starts going into the country, or students or that sort of thing, or anything else that happens, other devel- opment and investment action can occur, now all of a sudden is somebody in the security forces or somebody going to say "Oh those people are actually exporting drugs and ah so forth and we must get rid of them at once," And then it happens, because we know that it's very dangerous to help a country. We ourselves are in no danger of any kind whatsoever I assure you. The worst that could happen to us is "Well you'd better leave." Well they can't prove anything - cause we're not doing anything, and the second we cease to help - and it's very difficult to prove you're not doing anything when you're not doing anything. But what's, what's mainly, what's mainly the point; I have actually studied this thing from the word go, what happens is, is the design of this covert operation is to prevent us from assisting and therefore we can, our power or strength and so on can be cut back in certain areas we don't assist those areas and it - I don't care if you tell them I was engaged in an educational study of Rhodesia and they couldn't get me out of these fast enough and they suddenly found out that, that's the only reason, you can say that's the only reason Hubbard's name comes up on the thing. It's because those governments down there are scared stiff that their native populations and so on would be given an educational administrative system and therefore they 1966, why ah they said that Hubbard was non persona grata in that area because he was liable to do all sorts of horrible things. Actually he's done nothing. He was simply studying the educational basis and they all of a sudden found out that he'd do something about educating blacks - all of the blacks around working with and so on were all of a sudden learning like anybody else, and at that moment Boom they went up in smoke and this just told him he was not going to have his visa renewed - he wasn't even kicked out - just refused to renew his visa so he couldn't complete his study. The Rhodisians don't like him. We don't know what action there is then. The Rhodisians don't like him, the South Africans don't like him. Well how does this fire back into other intelligence lines? We couldn't care less. As far as Hubbard's concerned he retired back then, which is the actual facts of the case, I retired from all of these actions - all I'm interested in is this one.

Now, I've given you an awful lot of blather blather; have I given you any stable data? Do you have any stable data with regard to this, mm? What stable data do you have with regard to this?

Aide 1: I have one. Our operating procedure is we have nothing to hide, and (2) the major point that we're concerned with, are your boys fast enough to handle this sort of trouble maker who might be trying to upset something which could help your country. 

Ron: Yeh. Good. What have you got out of all this?

Aide 2: Well what we're interested in is security because we can be putting a lot of money into a country and we just want to make sure that once we have a sizeable amount in, that someone isn't going to come along and say, well these guys are no good, and then someone will act on it and there's a possibility of losing that money, because in fact we have nothing to hide. We're just interested in security and also we are, we want to, you know we, we're in a position where we can help. We have a lot of, you know, the technology for assisting administratively.

Ron: Alright. Very good.

The technology that is being employed to do this sort of thing is called covert operation and we have seen these things occur. We have seen these things happen before and the old company lost almost half a million dollars in one operation which wound up with the Deputy Prime Minister apologizing and everything else, but to get anybody, to get any principals we were operating then, to get their confidence back or anything back like that, it was impossible, so we're perfectly free to operate right this minute in Greece. We can go to their ports, we can use their ports and all that sort of thing, we're perfectly free, we even have a document to that affect, but who'd use Greece? See nobody, nobody can be interested in it, so we have our own protection lines.

The other thing that is very important is these covert operations had to do with they would put a story in some newspaper some place, in some foreign newspaper that we don't have any trace of at all and then all of a sudden they'll show up with a copy of the clipping, and all kinds of ramifications here in this covert operation. And nothing happens to us unless we try to help somebody and the moment something like this starts up there evidently is leaks in lines or something like that or they've got guys in here and there and those guys all of a sudden hit us. Here's an agent shows up. We ourselves have no distrust. 

My own attitude, my own attitude toward the Arab and the Arab states and so on is actually intensely friendly. I have always gotten along enormousely well with them. No trouble of anykind whatosever, and ah right now they're being hit by covert operations left right and center. The four great powers are hitting the Arab states - four powers are hitting them - each one of them with their covert operations and that sort of thing. Bum show, bum show. But, and the other thing is, and the other thing is, you needn't be quoting me it's my attitude, I'm just telling you what my attitude is - Islam has just now united and they united under King Hassan, and it - they're the first time that Islamic action has been concerted since I don't know how long, and they've got the whole north coast of Africa now, they've got it all the way around clear to the Turkish border; they're on the way up, they're the coming winner no matter what else is happening - they're the winner. But that's the first time, and they're, they're coming up because of King Hassan. He could sit this far out and so on. Now he, he'd like to put in a united nations of Africa and he'd like to do these other things. This country, this country actually is assuming a leadership role, and I would say that a covert operation of some kind or another would be hit at preventing Morocco from achieving a leadership role. So that capital and other things coming into Morocco at this time, somebody else thinking ahead, are liable to be hitting Morocco fairly heavily. I myself have no unconfidence. I wouldn't generate the idea that we're not confident of them. We're just showing them, look, see, look, for the lover of Christ. Ah for God's sakes, you know. "And do you know that a member of that crew actually stole a Marabout's shoes one time in Somalia. Oh yes. And that Interpol actually wants all of these girls for dancing ballet in San Francisco. And ah they are really not authentic, 'cause aside from the several million dollars they have in Swiss Banks and the other fortunes they can tap they don't have any money. They can't pay their bills. (laughter) And ah so they're really no good." And then to us and our principals: "Well Hassan isn't going to last very long you know and he's going to be, and there's actually a group ready to pull the rug out from underneath him - at any minute and it's not a secure area to invest any money."

Well all we've got to do is, or our concert is, all we've got to do is maintain a solid front. We don't believe anything bad about Morocco and they don't believe anything bad about us. We'll go ahead perfectly open and above board - Morocco's open and above board with us, we're open and above board with Morroco, we'll make hay, we'll bring money in here, we'll help 'em out left right and centre then let 'em get ahead of the thing. See, that's - that's what we're trying to achieve. You can't, you can't box around with this. Any questions? Mmm?

Aide: It's pretty straight, for me. Yes sir.

We are not by the way, babes in the woods where intelligence goes, we are hit and so forth, but I can assure you that the enemy is being hit much much harders, much harder, right where it hurts. In "Mad" magagazine the other day - to show you how wierd angles we get, there was an ad with a button; it says "Contribute to Mental Health or I will kill you." (laughter) Ten years ago the public was not as well aware of or educated to what the hell was going on, that's changed. Alright, I won't detain you. I'm sorry to chew your ear this long actually. I just wanted to give you what background we had. Our own security mechanisms it is almost impossible to infiltrate this organization. Our own security levels however have dropped a bit recently. Our security precautions have a bit ah dropped. The Spanish thing by the way, where this English engineer, ah what was his name, that he became a steward - (Aide: Walker's buddy, Walker, I don't remember his name) - That boy was a, that boy was a bird-dog, that boy was a bird-dog. The ship at that time you know had a Spanish crew and that guy was propositioning them and he was sent aboard to enturbulate the hell and then spread it on the beach that they were all perverts aboard, and the Spanish taking it in this fashion are absolutely knockered, because this was an English officer who was sacked by company and it was Spanish crew. Now how the hell they get a bunch of hippies and actions out of this I don't know - their intelligence must be so scrambled as to not be believable. He went up to England and he was going to open his yeep, and he did not, that isn't the guy who went on television; it was Jones that brought down the "Athena" or somebody like that. Maybe he did go on television, did he? Somebody thought he did. - (Aide: Was thinking of a guy who was called, I think his name was Nick Robinson or something wasn't it, that appeared on television (3 or 4 words inaudible) This was the guy that we thought was a pretty good Scientologist and I saw him in a televised interview telling how he was on the Flagship and everything. I saw it in the States.) - You did. - (Aide: On TV nine, yeh.) - Oh great. No, this isn't the same guy. Anyhow he was going to put it out and he was going to - this, this bird that came on in Valencia see, this bird that came down with this, original delivery of the ship as an engineer act- ually and was made Chief Steward. This guy went back and he was going to clobber us and do his usual, see, but he though he could get some money out of it somehow or another and all of a sudden why we move in on him from all four sides and he was about to go over the jumps for perversion - did he shut up! And he never made any other former move. But that's the report of a Spanish crew going to the police and complain- ing about this guy, but that guy was an operator; and it was Spanish crew, it had nothing to do with anything. I'm sure that the guy up there at the Director General de Tourisme - you know those guys are the intel- ligence agents don't you? Tourism. (Aide: Mm. He was well informed.) Huh? (Aide: he was well informed of exactly who to go to that was the guy that would do something for us, and he would just - no vias, just a bee-line, he said 'that's your guy'.) - Yeh. Then anyway, the net result of this, is they, there was a lot of stuff fed into their intelligence files, do you see what I mean? Here's false reports in their intelligence files. The guy they were complaining about was not a Scientologist and the people who were in trouble with him were Spanish crew. This guy was an English officer and our complain against England with regard to Spain is that England cuts up rough. Okay? I see something has crossed up here, what is it? - (Aide: No, I'm just recalling that guy.) - Yeh well that's, that's the report they've got and that somehow or another proves that everybody on the ship was hippies, if there were any hippies on the ship then they must have been Spanish. (laughter)

But there is the operating policy. All we're trying to do is, all we're trying to do is - we'll believe you, you believe us, you can investigate us any time, everything we're doing is totally above board, we won't believe anything bad about you, we'll prevent our principals and so forth from believing anything bad about Morocco and so on. Let's just glom on to these guys as they come in and give them the deep six. And we can go right on and everything will be fine and do business with them. None of this is a threat. We're trying to get an operating understanding. This is the operating climate apparently of Morocco and anybody who tries to help. Right. That's the target that we're trying to achieve , is simply we could go on and assist Morocco, bring in money, make investment and that sort of thing, run schools, help them with administration so on. We're not asking the government for a thing. It's just a climate in which we could do business, and if we can do that why everyone will win, that's all. Think of anything else? (Aide: No sir except that - we are also a rival to these intelligence services since we have the only technology that prevents security breaks and things like that.) - We can actually do that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't mention this particularly, but we, aah, part of administration is security, and we do have security technology as far as it applies to the internal area of an organization, and we can spot insecurity rather rapidly. It's part of administrative technology - that's why we're so seldom infiltrated. Okay? But I wouldn't make any stress of that. Yes? (Aide: I think we're doing pretty cool and I'm wondering if this thing might have come about as of yesterday's meeting with the Chamberlain's brother because he said he was going to see the Chamberlain right after he left us.) - No, I'll tell you how this came about. This was a piece of policy on my part - is, good bad or indifferent you go to see the cops. (laughter) And they were going to come in and they were going to shake this guy down, and just talk to him along with the Consul and, the Panamanian Consul and that sort of thing, and I said "No you don't, you go get the secret police." Instantly and at once. Let's put them right on this guys tail. This guy's been spreading lies. Now let's try to get the - they didn't, Peter didn't make his target un- fortunately, which was to - he actually answered questions and so on - he shouldn't have. All he should have gotten the guy to do was admit that he had said these things to the Panamanian Consul, do you follow? Now, the Panamanian Consul actually saw this guy and his cover is cover. And the Panamanian Consul doesn't know it, and I'm actually exposing his cover to some degree so I can keep that in security. Okay. We don't know, this is one of these things that we don't know, but the police have been on to it from this end and we don't talk about this, but they have been. No we, we, we put them on to that. So the report which you will get in from Rabat will be this report. Play it with the cops as long as you possibly can. You will find the average cop is honest, the average secret police people are honest, do you see, they're usually trying to do their job. In Spain I don't think they're honest any more. I think they expect France to die and the world to go up in smoke as far as they're concerned, so they're feathering their nests. I think the political operating conditions in Spain are fantastically bad. She hasn't joined NATO, which she shook down the Americans for a fantastic payment to keep the American bases there. Soon as she got that she instantly made a deal with the Russians so the Russians could use her ports. The second she made the deal with the Russians, the Russians, in the United Nations obviously, got the sanction against Britain for Gibraltar. This gives Gibraltar to the Russians, the use of Gibraltar to the Russians - that closes the Mediterranean at both ends. They can't affect this without treason in the Spanish Government. Morocco's affected by this. Morocco ought to kick those God-damn Spaniards out of Ceuta and Melila just like that. They shouldn't let them have any- thing to do with it. They should 's used this United Nations Sanction, somebody right 'way should have gone in and said, "Okay, let's have the sanction against Melila and Ceuta." (laughter) "We need that." They've got to have Melila, they got no port down at that end. They, they need the port at Ceuta to defend the place. They're getting the dirty end of the stick. Spain trying to extend her coast limit out to twelve miles and so forth, includes a piece of Morocco - it includes Morocco's waters - so there's no love lost between Spain and Morocco, these guys are just being quiet just now, they don't see their opportunity. But Spain's going to lose that area se. I'd say the operating climate in Spain - I wouldn't, no matter what Spain has told us I'm likely to have very much to do with Spain now. Franco's liable to die any minute, then you're liable to have a cold complete Communist revolution. He never even got rid of the old Communists you know, they're still walk- ing all over the place. I've talked to them. 

Okay. I'm sorry to talk to you so lengthly. I was just trying to give you the background. This is the, the most factual up to date background that I could give you on this secret war. Everything I have given is absolute fact, there is not one piece of propaganda in it. Mary-Sue has got the name, rank and serial numbers of the guys who serve on the councils and committees and advisory councils of the intelligence services from the World Federation of Mental Health. We also have the entire rolls of all of the members and attendees of their God-damn congresses which include them. They go to these conferences and there's their Russian friends "ngaa ngaa ngaa ngaa ngaa this is the plan something nga nga how are they proceeding over these in M.I.6." Do you get it? Bah. If Western Intelligence is that bad we had better make very firm, a very firm economic base in Africa, because those countries are not long for this world. The main trouble in Africa is if they have too much of a dependence, which if they haven't generated themselves and if they don't have people here, tech- nicians and so forth to help them, they're liable to find themselves out on the limb because Western actions may change, Western control of the situation and so forth in Africa and so on, it will slip - as Africa gets bled of all of its raw materials, is saddled with heavy loans, and gets nothing in report - and we don't agree with that. My point is that it's a damn dirty trick, and I don't know whether the Moroccans know it or not, or whether Africa knows it or not, but I think it's a dirty trick. U.S. loans and so forth - that money never comes into the country - it's paid directly over to the Ford Motor Company for a few tractors and so forth. What they need is people here who build tractors, see, they don't need somebody who imports tractors or exports tractors to them. They've got a limited space of time in which to build up a civilization and that is to say, an industrial civilization, and an industrial complex is sorely lacking and Western policy is not going to give them one, it's going to give them an agricultural natural re- sources complex. And one fine day when the Western Governments go boom where does that leave Morocco? It leaves here bled of her raw materials - her phosphate and other things - and a big debt. I don't agree with it, not for one, not for one minute. Okay. That's everything I've got to say as far as, as far as, I have nothing but the greatest respect for this particular government. The Panamanian Consul told us they're a bunch of swindlers and all that sort of thing and so forth. I don't, I don't buy him, not even vaguely, don't you see. This guy's the coming guy of Africa that's for sure. Okay. That's everything I got to say. Thank you very much.

(Aides: Thank you sir.)

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